V.com weekend vote: What 'A' do you tune to (440, etc.)? (2024)

Violinist.com - - Instruments

Laurie Niles

August 11, 2024 at 05:57 AM · In orchestra I listen to the oboe's A, then tune to the real one which is bit higher.

August 11, 2024 at 07:02 AM · Hester Prynne thanks you for choosing green! (My viola came tuned from the factory.)

August 11, 2024 at 09:23 AM · Lots of As for me.

409 when a flutist had a baroque instrument at that pitch.

392 for some French baroque music.

Up around 466 when playing with some Renaissance winds.

430 for some hip classical

August 11, 2024 at 11:24 AM · 440 here. We can thank singers for putting down their collective foot on the matter of pitch elevation. The late Renata Tebaldi had it written into her contract that the orchestral tuning was not to go above 440. Singers don't like having their instruments forced higher and higher, and I don't care to have my strings stretched tighter and tighter.

I have so-called perfect pitch and can tolerate up to 442 - it still sounds like A to me; but I don't like to go below 440.

From experience, I know that consistent tuning helps my fiddles stay in tune here in the hot, humid summers of north-central AL, USA. Then, too, the composite-core A-D-G and steel E strings I've used for the last 10+ years undoubtedly help.

August 11, 2024 at 01:01 PM · 440. My former orchestra under our last music director tuned to 441 or 442 - can’t remember which now.

Occasionally I come across a student whose private teacher instructs them to tune to 443, which sets my teeth on edge.

It’s interesting to listen to the opening chords of Beethoven’s Eroica through the years and around the world.

https://youtu.be/UnhlQUBsd6g?si=P0g4xlwmu_Y2QPeE

August 11, 2024 at 01:31 PM · Scott very good point, I was not thinking of that, lol!

August 11, 2024 at 02:10 PM · Great link, Mary Ellen!

August 11, 2024 at 02:24 PM · My tuning app is set at A 441 Hz, but strings get lower over time. When I notice that my violin sounds flat, I tune it again to the app. A. The app then tells me I have let it slip to around 439 Hz.

August 11, 2024 at 03:22 PM · Usually 440. I tuned to 441 for piano quartet rehearsals for a while last year because the piano we were rehearsing with was tuned to that, but otherwise the ensembles I've played in have all tuned to 440.

August 11, 2024 at 04:53 PM · I find tuning such a minefield! I use a tuner app p!usadd PTU-2 from the apple app store, with Pythagorean temperament. I tune my A to the sound of the Tuners A=440. Then I check my strings against the tuner, then I tune them to each other. And then, when the orchestra's oboe has a different A I try to do the right thing and adjust but I panic a little.(However, at summer school last week, someone incredulously said they like to sit next to me because I play in tune!) I'm hoping that one day tuning will get easier... always grateful for tips!

August 11, 2024 at 05:35 PM · @Jim - your reply is interesting. You have perfect pitch. If you are tuning just by ear, what frequency is the A you hear in your mind? Do you know if you are typical of people with perfect pitch concerning the frequency at which they hear a perfect A?

I do recall one incident where I went to a baroque concert where they tuned to 415. At the intermission I was asking one of singers whether the A-415 tuning created any problems for them. She said, no, not for them, but that the violinist playing next to her must have perfect pitch because he was playing out of tune.

August 11, 2024 at 11:43 PM · @Tom - on tuning by ear, I'm pretty sure it's 440 in my mind; could be plus or minus 1-2 Hz. Not sure how typical I am, though. My pitch sense isn’t so absolute or rigid that I can't adapt easily and continue to play as well as normal if I have to tune to a piano that's a bit low or high.

Come to think of it, I hardly ever need to tune by ear. I have my Korg tuner set to 440. It's the first tone I hear before starting each practice session. I actually identify chords and keys faster than I identify individual notes. If the key is A Major, e.g., the opening of Beethoven 7, then I use relative pitch to mentally pinpoint the I-IV-V chords - A-D-E in this case. After that, I'm ready to go.

Besides the tuner giving me 440, the radio tone at the top and bottom of the hour on some networks is also 440. So I'm repeatedly hearing this pitch day after day.

A bit off topic, but I'd say worth mentioning: I work out 4 days a week. During each session, I’ve got maybe 95 percent of my attention on the muscles and 5 percent on the music playing in the background. My last trainer, 8-1/2 years ago, knew I could identify keys. He would test me on it during training sessions: "Push - push - both hands - that's all you. You got it. What key is that?" And I would tell him each time.

August 12, 2024 at 12:07 AM · @Jim - very interesting. I think most of us use a tuner these days; I certainly do. One other funny story I have about perfect pitch relates to a work colleague who has perfect pitch but no sense of direction. Her husband is the opposite: great sense of direction but no sense of pitch. She told me that if she was driving and started getting lost, he would criticize her for the lack of sense of direction. She would respond by humming a note and asking "Andy, what note is that?"

August 12, 2024 at 02:08 AM · My ear prefers 440 but I've been doing 441 because our orchestra piano is tuned to it. I've gotten used to it and it doesn't sound "pushed" anymore. More of a challenge is my ear is determined to prefer a perfect 5th over the tempered 5ths necessary for orchestral play. With out a tuner I will tend to tune my 5ths "wide" with D a touch flat and my G even flatter!

August 12, 2024 at 06:38 AM · Our conductor uses 441, he claims this makes it easier on the wind players, but I never understood exactly why, and the wind players can't explain it clearly to me either :-) Can someone here explain? When I am on my own, practice sessions, I just use my tuning fork, so 440.

August 12, 2024 at 07:21 AM · Musical pitch isn't a concrete physical phenomenon but a psycho-acoustic sensation, influenced by intensity and timbre as well as fundamental frequency. The 440Hz saw-tooth wave produced by my Yamaha metronome/tuner to me actually sounds flat as compared with the 440Hz sine wave on youtube. This uncertainty I think rather confounds any debate as to whether to tune to 440 or 441Hz.

August 12, 2024 at 01:29 PM · I'm not even sure I could hear the difference between 440Hz and 441Hz, or even 443Hz for that matter.

August 12, 2024 at 06:02 PM · On violin, A=440 unless the orchestra oboe uses a different pitch, which is rare for me. On viola, I usually tune the D to 294.66 then tune the other strings by perfect 5ths. Learned this trick from Primrose. Helps the viola sound more in tune with a piano.

August 12, 2024 at 11:28 PM · Except for those with perfect pitch, I often wonder whether anyone can REALLY hear the difference in 1 or two Hz either way.

Call me cynical, but sometimes it's just seems a kind of signaling of musical erudition: "My ear is SO picky--I prefer 441!"

Let's face it--who wants to say they prefer boring old 440?

People these days seem to have a need to be contrarians, like the tickity-tockity "experts" who brush their teeth with bizarre substances or claim that alkaline water cures cancer.

I'll bet if you tested musicians in an objective way, few could hear the difference.

August 13, 2024 at 04:20 AM · I have perfect pitch and I typically tune to 440, though 441 is ever-so-subtly noticeable for me. It doesn't often bother me when instruments are tuned differently from the commonplace 440, although I do admit I'm not a fan of the sound of 443 or those exaggerated high tunings.

On the topic of perfect pitch, some people (especially non-string-players) think that perfect pitch is being able to hear whether notes are in tune or not. But no, telling the difference between good and bad intonation is simply a matter of ear training and being a sensitive musician! Perfect pitch is merely being aware of the note name of a given pitch, without any sort of reference point (and in some cases being able to sing a specific note on command).

People with perfect pitch are no more likely to play in tune than anyone else, though they probably have some advantage when it comes to finding notes on the violin since they can mentally pinpoint ("audiate") the desired note without relying on relative pitch (or muscle memory?).

August 13, 2024 at 06:15 AM · Having tuned our A-string to the oboe's A, whatever that may be, what do we do with the other strings? Perfect fifths isn't a perfect answer, particularly for the C-strings. There is no strategy that ensures that all of our strings are perfectly tuned in all music all of the time, and even if there were we'd surely find a frequent need to adapt our fingering to whatever inaccuracies we perceive from other sections. I'd be interested to learn what tuning policy an elite orchestra adopts - strictly regimented or laissez-faire?

August 13, 2024 at 08:32 AM · So I asked a front-desk violist in the BBCSO. He tells me all major British orchestras tune to 440. "I don’t think you will benefit from a scientific approach!"

August 13, 2024 at 12:11 PM · At home and out for teaching, I tune to a 440 tuning fork. When playing with a piano I need to tune to that or a tad higher if I think it is flat. In orchestra the oboe gives the A - but which A? Typically, an orchestra gets two A’s - first for the winds and brass, then for the strings and while I usually see the oboist checking in front of a tuning machine, I don’t care; I often hear two different pitches. And I don’t like the occasional practice of going more than two A’s. Winds, brass, lower strings, upper strings. I don’t think it helps me orchestra’s intonation. And in the course of playing, the strings tend to rise in pitch and the winds to fall. Once during a pause in an orchestra rehearsal, the difference was so noticeable that the respective sections glared accusingly at one another. But there was blame to go around.

When I do tune to fork, if the A string is the slightest bit low, I tune it up. But if it’s a tad higher, I leave it. I like the brighter, more cutting sound. Henryk Szerying was asked why he tuned higher than the oboe as a concerto soloist. Said he “because I want to be heard!”

August 13, 2024 at 12:11 PM · At home and out for teaching, I tune to a 440 tuning fork. When playing with a piano I need to tune to that or a tad higher if I think it is flat. In orchestra the oboe gives the A - but which A? Typically, an orchestra gets two A’s - first for the winds and brass, then for the strings and while I usually see the oboist checking in front of a tuning machine, I don’t care; I often hear two different pitches. And I don’t like the occasional practice of going more than two A’s. Winds, brass, lower strings, upper strings. I don’t think it helps me orchestra’s intonation. And in the course of playing, the strings tend to rise in pitch and the winds to fall. Once during a pause in an orchestra rehearsal, the difference was so noticeable that the respective sections glared accusingly at one another. But there was blame to go around.

When I do tune to fork, if the A string is the slightest bit low, I tune it up. But if it’s a tad higher, I leave it. I like the brighter, more cutting sound. Henryk Szerying was asked why he tuned higher than the oboe as a concerto soloist. Said he “because I want to be heard!”

August 13, 2024 at 12:13 PM · Sorry for the repeat! I guess that is because I’m used to getting two A’s in orchestra! :-)

August 13, 2024 at 12:39 PM · I can see Szering's point but what exactly is the advantage of tuning to 441 compared with 440, the "edge", if the whole orchestra is doing it?

August 13, 2024 at 01:00 PM · I think that Szerying’s point was that whatever pitch the orchestra was tuned to, he wanted to be just a bit higher to cut through better. But to be absolutely sure we may have to hold a séance!

I heard that Heifetz liked a high A and apparently noticed a tendency to play sharp in his upper register and would have his piano tuned accordingly. But what did he do when playing with orchestra?

August 13, 2024 at 03:07 PM ·

I have the following tuner that resides permanently on my violin. (Just like my chin-rest.). It's neat, because it responds to vibration in my violin, versus sound.

https://fiddlershop.com/products/d-addario-ns-micro-violin-and-viola-tuner?_pos=1&_fid=a34fb253e&_ss=c

"Recent" orchestras with which I've played tune to 440 A. But given the available technology, having the non-strings tune to the oboe, the concert master tuning to the oboe, and thereafter having the strings tune to the concert master, seems so ridiculously anachronistic and unreliable to me.

I ignore all of the above, set my tuner to the proper A (440), tune to that A, tune both the D and G to my violin's A, and then conclude by tuning the E to the tuner. In this way, I know that at least one instrument in that orchestra will be in tune! It's never let me down.

I do this out of both convenience and out of necessity. Due to aging, my high-end hearing is challenged and I don't hear well enough to tune to either my E string or A string. But tuning my D and G strings to my violin A is not a problem.

August 13, 2024 at 06:17 PM · Did anyone ever sort out the terminology here? For some people, "perfect pitch" means being able to hit an arbitrary note on its own. Others refer to this as "absolute pitch", and take "perfect pitch" to mean the sort of perfect intonation that yet another group refers to as "relative pitch". It's all so confusing...

As for me, I have a fairly decent absolute pitch, but I can adjust to other instruments or recordings if they're slightly off A-440. I normally tune my instrument (violin or viola) to A-440 with a tuning fork and use perfect 5ths for the other strings (although as others have mentioned, I might have to tweak the viola's C string). Since our orchestra also tunes to A-440, this means that I need little or no adjustment when we all tune together.

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