Kindhearted suggestions, anyone, for reed that will match rosewood bagpipes? (2024)

Do you mean uilleann pipes? Or Scottish pipes? Uilleann pipes (unless you have a flat set) will be at A=440, but Scottish Highlands pipes will be sharp of that. Scottish small pipes or border pipes, if they are in A, ought to be around that.

Everything below pertains to uilleann pipes, if that’s what you have. If they’re Highland or other types of pipes, I have less of a clue but I know at least for Highlands, there are more synthetic reed options.

That said, there is unlikely to be any reed in the world that will make it in tune with itself if it’s a cheapo chanter. Also, the way they play is a bewildering combination of individual reed, individual chanter, weather, atmospheric pressure, and a butterfly flapping its wings in China. So no one can say what a particular reed -- and there are no ‘brands’ as such for uilleann pipes -- will do in your chanter.

They are highland pipes, DrSilverSpear. Thanks.

My pipe chanter reed actually seems pretty good, so maybe I will just need to learn how to carefully file one of the holes a bit to correct the flat note, but I wanted to try reed combo as a first step.

I need to at least get some better drone reeds, because these are leaking. (So, Balance Tones vs. Shelib vs. Shepherd vs. SM90, vs. Eezeedrones?). I was considering something synthetic and easily-adjustable, since I live in an extremely dry climate and have this uncertain tonality situation.

(Maybe I’m remiss asking about Highland pipes on an Irish site, but I did try to get into a Scottish pipe forum and it may be defunct, because I could never get it to register me, so I didn’t know where else to turn for possible objective input.)

“(Maybe I’m remiss asking about Highland pipes on an Irish site…)”

Remiss?
I should think not. Firstly, you are asking musician to musician. What could be wrong?
I have observed plenty of references and discussion regarding GHBs and assorted even stranger Scottish and British Isles bagpipe-type beasties. I, for one, might never have heard about, and then acquired my own pipes if not for this site. (SSPs, so I wold not presume to advise you about GHBs.)

Hang on, I am sure there are more answers forthcoming.

You’re asking a short question with a long and complex answer. You’ll find faster, more comprehensive advice here: http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/index.php

The Dunsire Bagpipe Forum is the premier site for all things related to, primarily, Highland pipes.

In the meantime, the standard quick fix for flattening notes is, of course, tape. Use of tape is common at the highest levels of Highland piping. Without use of tape, you’re in for a long and arduous process of attempting to find a perfect reed/chanter match.

Also, in all likelihood you will not be able to find a perfect-strength reed just out of the box. Most pipers go through a process, taking weeks, of breaking in the chanter reed through a process of blowing and careful scraping.

Save yourself a lot of time and heartache and find an experienced Highland piper in your area. Make certain it’s a high-level player who knows their way around reeds.

Hmm trying to condense the arcane arts of bagpipe tuning into a post or two, oh well here goes…

First up it’s anyone’s guess how in tune with itself that chanter actually is given the origin. If you have a reed that is giving you a workable tone out of the majority of the scale then that’s probably about as good as you are likely to get. The best option is to try and get a decentish octave between High and Low A. As the bore is conical movements of the reed in its seat will affect the higher notes more than the lower (in is obviously increasing the pitch) . If you can’t get an octave with manipulation settle for a position that gives the better tone and use a bit of pvc tape or similar to cover the top of the sound hole of either the High G or Low G depending on which is the sharper (the tape will lower the pitch slightly). Don’t forget that many traditionalists actually tune the High A flat so that it beats a bit against the drones and is more audible (sounds bloody horrible to me but it is common practice at the highest of grades). Don’t forget also that the highland pipe scale isn’t equal temperament so there’s no way on earth you are going to get that chanter lighting up all those pretty green lights on a Korg, settle for what sounds right and tune down anything too sharp using the tape trick.

As for reeds well no one ever went wrong with a set of Eeze drones, they’re reliable, have a solid sound and are relatively cheap and easily available. As for a chanter reed Chris Apps is your side of the pond and you don’t get much better than him. He will sell you strength graded reeds and if you can get to chat with him he might even have a suggestion for something that will help get that thing to tune.

I have no problems with Pakistani drones per se, I have, in a memorable evening, passed off a set of Pakistani drones as a high end pipe make to a whole band of pipers, so as long as you are prepared to fettle and haven’t bought a total wall hanging you will probably get them to work reasonably enough once they are reeded. The chanters though are a different matter and I’ve never seen them as anything but firewood and not much use as that either. There is no reason that you cannot fit a decent chanter to a set of Pakistani drones, what normally stops it happening is the state of the bag which frequently will not seal. It’s unlikely that you’ll have a problem with fit as most of these pipes are reverse “engineered” Scottish pipes anyway and tend to have fairly standard basic dimensions.

Don’t forget the simple things that can make a massive difference when trying to make a bagpipe playable. Leaks are a killer, make sure all the joints seal, this includes the drone sections and the reed seats, and the bag is air tight. Make sure the valve is working properly too. It’s common practice when starting out to introduce the drones one at a time while building up the familiarity and capacity to play the thing.

If you have been lucky and have picked up a reasonable set of drones you might have a pipe that will serve you well for the early stages. Best of luck with it.

Thanks for the tape suggestion, Matt. I tried emailing the administrator of Bob Dunsire forum tonight, because I’ve been unable to get my registration to take.

I’ll investigate breaking in reeds and also look for pipers in my area. I’m pretty sure my pipes are “losers” from any professional’s point of view, and a teacher may not want to mess with them. This is why the first word in my posted Subject here is “kindhearted.” On another forum I checked, all people wanted to do was say how hopeless the pipes were when people had a poor set. But people often have a poor set because they have no other responsible choice at the moment. You all are kind to answer my questions with a point in the right direction without being too discouraging. Have fun making music!

The Pakistani-made pipes which are sold as “rosewood” are actually made of Sheesham wood.

I have had dozens of students over the last 35 years bring Pakistani pipes in, and not a single chanter was capable of playing at all, with any reed whatever.

It’s inexcusable, when you can pick up a very fine-playing Scottish-made pipe chanter quite cheaply.

(Let’s be sure we’re talking about PIPE chanters, not practice chanters, which are completely different.)

You can pick up an old African Blackwood Scottish-made Highland pipe chanter on Ebay for between $100 and $150. Why doesn’t anybody want these? Because the pitch of the Highland pipes has been rising over the years, and old chanters, good as they are, don’t play at the modern sharp pitch, and can’t be used in ordinary modern Highland piping.

The old chanters will often play at, or close to, Concert B Flat (the chanter’s nominal “A” being around 466 cycles).

Modern Highland pipe chanters are designed to play at a quartertone between B Flat and B Natural (the nominal “A” being around 480 cycles).

For studio work, an older chanter will be preferable, I’m guessing, due to the lower pitch.

And, new chanters, designed to play with modern reeds, are available in polypenco for around $150-200. Getting one of these will make everything easier. These are made both in the modern high pitch (around 480) or at Concert B Flat (466).

“Setting up” a Highland chanter, that is, choosing just the right reed, adjusting the reed, and adjusting the chanter’s scale, is a sophisticated skill which takes many years to learn. You won’t be able to get anything approaching a normal quality sound due to your not having this skill. You would be better off getting together with an experienced piper/pipe teacher, who in a few minutes can get a chanter playing better than you will be able to in months of tinkering. This is a assuming that you have a quality modern chanter. With a Pakistani chanter no-one will ever be able to get a decent tone out of it, and a fine vintage Scottish-made chanter may be difficult to reed due to being designed for reeds different than the type we use today.

And yes, your questions are better suited to the BobDunsire site, which caters specifically to Highland piping. People ask the same things you’re asking fairly regularly, and get the sort of answers I’ve given.

You’ve wasted every penny you’ve spent so far, to be brutally honest. Your chanter is almost certainly untunable at any pitch. Your drones are not going to play in tun, at pitch, and remain stable. The bag is probably pishing air. Consider it an expensive lesson in how not to save money.

To put it another way - you haven’t bought a low quality bagpipe. You’ve bought something that can never be a bagpipe, no matter how much it looks like one.

My best advice would be to use synthesized bagpipe sounds for your project, or find a kind-hearted piper to record your tracks for you. If you really want do it yourself, you need at minimum two stocks (you might be able to recycle these at least), a bag, and a decent chanter, all of which can be picked up second hand quite cheaply.

“For the record, Matt Buckley, can I just state how offensive the term ‘Paki’ is?”

Perhaps it is. But it’s very common term in Highland piping circles, pertaining to the pipes, not the people.

My apologies.

I thought it was only an abbreviation for Pakistani myself, until I used it here at The Mustard, also when discussing pipes. I was quickly corrected, and many thanks to you all.

I never heard it used in NYC, nor urban Connecticut when I lived there, although I met a lot of Indians and Pakistanis in both places.

Was this a British/Irish slang term?

Yeah, I’ve never heard a decent Pakistani chanter but I have come across plenty of good enough drones, Rangerson’s and Hakam Din, hardly the first names in quality for sure but capable enough to turn out a drone every now and again. Being brutally honest I don’t expect anyone to get anywhere learning an instrument without tuition. I rate their chances even lower when the instrument chosen is as difficult to set up as a pipe and as practically nil when that instrument is more of a toy and ornament than anything else.

That said Susana does at least have a musical background and enthusiasm. She might be able to get things going enough to have some fun in the studio, she might not. I was thinking about this thread driving around today and was kicking myself for not recommending getting hold of a practice chanter and at least starting the learning process with that, I am not sure though that this is really what the op wants in this case. Dunsire’s will be a complete waste of time. People are so gun ho pipe band that the notion of any other approach is completely alien and will not be understood at all. I can’t stand that forum and I’ve played pipes for almost 40 years now. Bunch of it is tempting to say but in reality mostly just completely into their thing and blind to much else. A common failing.

Piece: Was this a British/Irish slang term?

In Britain it was used as an abusive and derogatory word, directed at almost anyone of south asian descent, through much of the 1970s and 1980s. I’ve not heard it for a long term now though.

Note my comments were entirely about chanters.

About drones, I’ve encountered Pakistani pipes which had drones which were acceptable. These were the ones imported into the USA by “Mid East Manufacturing” in Florida, and the African Blackwood and Ebony pipes by Hakim Din mentioned above. There’s a local piper here who was playing a Hakim Din set mounted in nice engraved sterling silver. The tone of these pipes was pretty good, though not anywhere near the tone of better legitimate UK and North American makers. This Hakim Din set was made from a mix of Ebony and African Blackwood, in fact one of the sections (either the bass midsection or bass upper section, I can’t remember) was pieced together from both woods, odd.

But investing in such pipes is inexcusable when you have, for example, a fine African Blackwood set by Gibson USA going on Ebay currently for under $600 with no bidders. I picked up recently a fine Starck London 1940s set of pipes on Ebay for under $700, and a while back a pristine new-looking set of McCallums on Ebay for under $800.

“ Dunsire’s will be a complete waste of time. People are so gun ho pipe band that the notion of any other approach is completely alien and will not be understood at all. ”

This comment is harsh, inaccurate and outdated. The Dunsire site has, as part of its site, a Forum for alternative pipes and styles of play. Several of the world’s foremost players and makers of alternative styles and pipes participate. While the larger site is dominated by competition Highland piping, solo and band, the site nevertheless can provide a wealth of information if you are able to sort the wheat from the chaff.

Judge Dunsire for yourself.

“Dunsire will be a complete waste of time. People are so gun ho* pipe band that the notion of any other approach is completely alien and will not be understood at all.”

Dunsire has a soloist section, and an alternative pipes section. Yes they have a pipe band section too.

Much knowledge there, with experts in vintage pipes, and some very good players, and reedmakers, and such. A waste of time if you don’t want to learn anything!

About not being able to understand things there, like all other specialised fields bagpiping has its own jargon/terminology. It can be baffling for a newbie, but spend time around pipers and one picks it up.

*Gung-ho

My non-standard pipes are up and running with reeds from Bruce Hitchings, who was very helpful and made a set of drone reeds work for A440 to match my pipes. I like these reeds!

I found Dunsire’s forum useful, as they discuss technique a lot, which I need. Also, am grateful for the mention of Rufus Harley.. Finding that he plays Coltrane on pipes opens a new door..